Ep.6: From High School Fashion to Published Author and Beyond with Fritz

In this episode of The Words We’ve Heard, host Marbree Sullivan sits down with Fritz, a lifelong learner whose journey has involved cross-country moves and a career shift from education to writing with a side of ski instruction while raising a family and holding on to her own interests.

Fritz reflects on growing up in post-war Southern California, parental disapproval of high school choices, and how the positive words of a professor go beyond the classroom. 

With humor, honesty, and deep thoughtfulness, Fritz talks about family, creativity, faith, and the decisions—big and small—that shape a life. This is a story about adaptation, appreciation, and the quiet courage of staying engaged and curious.

🎧 Key Moments in the Episode:

• [00:00:29] – Post-War California and a Time of Trust
• [00:06:23] – The High School Fashion Board and Dreaming of a Career in Style
• [00:19:15] – Choosing a College and Graduating in Three Years
• [00:24:24] – Writing 23 Children’s Books While Raising a Family
• [00:29:45] – The Path of a Career in Education
• [00:35:27] – Music, Movement, and Lifelong Learning
• [00:43:55] – Entering Philanthropy and Becoming a University Board Chair
• [00:55:00] – People Who Shaped Her and a Professor Who Believed in Her
• [01:02:40] – A Message to the World: Keep Your Friends, Speak Your Praise

💬 If this episode moved you:

• Please rate and review The Words We’ve Heard on your favorite podcast platform
  
  
• Share it with someone who values personal stories and intergenerational wisdom
  
  
• Reach out to someone who’s been quietly showing up for years—let them know you see them
  
  
  

Transcript

[00:00:00] Marbree: Welcome to the words we've heard. This is Marbury Sullivan, and each week I sit down with a baby boomer to capture their stories, ask for a bit of advice, and hold on to the memories of the post World War II generation. Join me as we journey through everyday lives and extraordinary stories. Today's episode is a discussion with Fritz, someone I've known for a long time, and always admired a dissertation away from a PhD.

[00:00:32] She chose to put her time and energy where it meant the most to her, a career in education. That became tricky as her kids got older and her husband's company transferred them around the country gave way to a career in writing. Later in life, she had a full circle moment returning to her undergraduate school in a capacity she hadn't foreseen.

[00:00:53] And yet was ideally suited for throughout. She raised children and held on to interests and [00:01:00] activities that nourish her mind and her body while Fritz and her family were frequently relocated by her husband's employer. My family was similarly moved about by my dad's company for a time. Our families were in the same place and the friendships that formed have lasted through the miles and the years that separate us.

[00:01:19] Fritz and I spoke over two different conversations and the sound quality wasn't identical. If you hear jumps in the topic or something repeated, blame me. Not Fritz. She is sharp as tack. Fritz, thank you for being here. I really appreciate you sitting down with me. Let's go back to the beginning. So how would you describe your childhood?

[00:01:45] Fritz: Well, um.  I lived in a relatively nice area, so post-war, you could get houses where my parents were able to purchase a home for, um, they had a [00:02:00] three bedroom, two bath house with a detached garage, relatively nice sized yard, and it was $12,500. Now, if you try to buy a house on that same street, even the resale of that house, say five years ago was, um, $600,000.

[00:02:22] Marbree: When you say resale, does that mean that your mother was in that house that whole time? She lived in that house that 

[00:02:28] Fritz: whole 

[00:02:28] Marbree: time. 

[00:02:28] Fritz: She was going to the same church, the same hairdresser for, you know, 50 years or whatever it was. Yeah. So there were some good things. But then maybe not some good things because as you get older, then your friends begin to die and then you look around and go, oh, oh wow, where are they?

[00:02:54] So then adjusting was hard. So my feelings about that neighborhood and the high [00:03:00] school, high school was great. Where was this? This was in Southern California. So post-war, Southern California. And it's exploding in growth, of course, and you can just see pictures of it over the years of the bulldozers coming in and plowing out the dirt and building rows and rows, cul-de-sacs of um, houses, high quality school district.

[00:03:26] And that didn't necessarily occur in Southern California. I think we, again, we just lucked out. So they had music programs, all different sorts of specialty things that you could take and you didn't have to pay extra. You could take courses from the junior college, they'd come over the teachers and give us the courses and then that went on the transcript.

[00:03:53] So I left there with some college stuff already, um, on my [00:04:00] transcript is now a much more common circumstance. I liked my teachers. Um, sports-wise, our sports teams were pretty good. I wanted to be a pom, so in order to be a pom you had to first be in the girls drill marching palms. So there was a sequence that you had to go through that worked.

[00:04:23] So I was really, really happy about that. So you got to get out of class to go to various games and, and here again is why having the teams do well. That was pretty nice. 

[00:04:36] Marbree: Can I go back a little bit to the area where you grew up? Mm-hmm. Lots of kids running around. Does that mean that you played with other kids, you know, in the neighborhood?

[00:04:44] Yes. 

[00:04:44] Fritz: Yes. And we had the, um, occurrence where the parents just opened the doors and said, go out and play and come back when it's dark. Which is, you know, so different than it is now. So we, we [00:05:00] did things like, did you ever play capture the flag? Mm-hmm. So we did capture the flag. We did obviously hide and go seek in the neighborhood.

[00:05:10] Nobody ever thought about anybody kidnapping, anyone, but probably sometimes it did occur. So, uh, I don't know. My recollection is it was wonderful. We got to go play with whomever we wanted to. Sometimes the boys even played with the girls. Um, yeah. So it was a good, safe location with the feeling of parental trust.

[00:05:38] And would it be considered a suburb? It was a suburb of the big city. But not the amount of traffic. How far from the ocean were you? Um, there was a bay and a lagoon, so maybe more like 15 minutes to the actual ocean. So there were, um, all different options [00:06:00] for water close by, and that was nice. Did kids surf?

[00:06:04] Yes. Did you? No. Did you want to? No, not, not really. Did you work at all when you were in high school? Yeah. So here's this other thing. Cool thing I got to do. This is why my picture of high school is really, really, really good. Um, so each of the main. Department stores. They were, it was kind of like Macy's, but it's, it's a different name 'cause it's a Southern California store.

[00:06:31] They had a fashion board and I always liked fashion and drew pictures of fashion and would make my sister Barbie doll clothes. So I was thinking maybe I was gonna get into fashion. So each high school. Interview girls that wanted to be their fashion representatives. So you literally had to go to an interview and I got it.

[00:06:56] So I was the representative for our high [00:07:00] school, and this was the time period when Twiggy was in fashion. So our first outfit, they gave us that, that was the other thing, you got an outfit every three to four months because you were supposed to be representing the latest fashion. It was purple tones, flowers.

[00:07:18] I cut my hair even to be like Twiggy. I mean, this is scary. Yeah. And as soon as I did it, I went, no, you don't look good. Really, really short hair. But, um, it had a tie and the shoes with, um, stockings. Fishnet stockings. And then the shoes were like Mary Jane's, except they were clear plastic with purpley toes.

[00:07:42] I mean, it was, it was wild. But that's what they wanted us to wear. Like, okay, I'll do that. Um, you're giving it to me. And so I can still remember the outfits. Then when it was summer vacation, you could still work for the store, not in your little purple outfit, [00:08:00] but you had a guaranteed job, which was nice because I found that jobs were harder to get nowadays.

[00:08:09] Maybe a young person can get a job in a dry cleaners, not then, not where I lived. Your mother could, but you as a kid could not. So this was great. I was all set with a relatively high paying job and at Christmas too. Oh, nice. 

[00:08:26] Marbree: Were you able to keep doing that during 

[00:08:28] Fritz: college? Um, in the summers and, um, Christmas time, although what finally, um, caused me to leave was I.

[00:08:38] I was loading up on extra courses so I could graduate early. I didn't have time to do it then. Yeah, so it was a good job. It was fun. My best friend also started working there, so yeah, we had a great time. 

[00:08:51] Marbree: Going back to the outfits, was it anywhere specific that you were supposed to wear them? Oh, when you were working in the store.

[00:08:58] Fritz: Okay. That's what you wore to [00:09:00] work, whereas other women had to wear drab skirts, you know, black, brown, navy, and beige. 

[00:09:08] Marbree: Okay. That 

[00:09:08] Fritz: was it. So we were the little hot purples. 

[00:09:12] Marbree: And then did, did you work sort of a sales role? 

[00:09:15] Fritz: Yes, yes. Sales role, except for my absolute favorite time was they were short on whoever was supposed to show up to paint decorations for Christmas.

[00:09:29] So I got to work deep down in the bowels of the store, painting angels and glitter. It was. It was really fun. So I got to do that like three times. Much better than folding what people come in and they look at the stuff and then they never folded up again. Right. So this was a, just a bonus fun bonus. 

[00:09:53] Marbree: And did that job influence your decision not to go into a, a line of fashion for work?

[00:09:58] Fritz: Yeah. 

[00:09:59] Marbree: Plus I [00:10:00] also 

[00:10:00] Fritz: read and studied more and found that people that. Really wanted to go into fashion, you had to be cutthroat, and also you had to have better drawing skills than I ended up having. So, yeah, that's a good question. I, I said, no, this probably not gonna be for you, but it was fun to try it for a while.

[00:10:23] Sounds like it. 

[00:10:24] Marbree: Yeah, it was. What was dating like in your community when you were in high school? 

[00:10:28] Fritz: Yes, so listening to my granddaughters, it, it was fairly similar to what they do or did in middle school, where you just kind of hung out as a group. You weren't really hooking up with anybody yet. Um, and then high school, it also, at least, um, I had a four year high school.

[00:10:48] Ninth grade. 10th grade was. Similar to that, but then by the time you got to 11th grade, it was real dating. And especially for things like going to the [00:11:00] prom and you wanted to get asked to go to the prom and homecoming. Yeah. So that was like real dating. 

[00:11:07] Marbree: Did you have any relationships in high school? 

[00:11:09] Fritz: Yeah, I did.

[00:11:10] I had one boyfriend when I first started this school. Um, my parents didn't like him one bit. Why not? Um, he dressed too much like a Beatle with the, you know, they just worried. He just worried them on did he really have the right kind of character? And so, of course. If you're told no, what is it you do?

[00:11:34] Yeah. But then, then he was a year older than I was and I reached the point of you I should try some other guys in my class. Um, and so then I started dating more guys in my class to stay with the same guy was, it just was boring and there were a lot of really nice, very intelligent, good looking guys at my school.

[00:11:57] So as you were 

[00:11:58] Marbree: growing up, did your mother work. [00:12:00] 

[00:12:00] Fritz: Yes. Yes, she did. Um, not until we reached the point of we were all in elementary school, and so I can't quite remember the order of things that she did. She was the assistant secretary at our church, which I think she really liked. And then at some point later, she switched over to working in a Hallmark card store and she loved it.

[00:12:26] And she was also just very outgoing, smiley, the kind of person that you would wanna welcome into your store. And then of course, whoever that is, would. Would buy more buy. So she was good at that one too. 

[00:12:40] Marbree: Did your mother go to college? 

[00:12:41] Fritz: Nope. Should have, yeah, she was the salutatorian of her school. My father always said that she should have been the valedictorian, but she didn't wanna give the speech, so she fudged her scores on whatever her last test was and she would never admit to it.

[00:12:59] [00:13:00] So I'm assuming this is right, given her personality. 

[00:13:03] Marbree: And your father, he was an engineer, is that right? 

[00:13:06] Fritz: Engineer. He basically, um, had for a job, a kind of thing he always wanted to do. When he was a kid growing up. So he would draw airplanes, build them with his brother, and they would jump off the roof of their barn flying the airplanes.

[00:13:26] Yeah. Luckily never broke anything. Wow. He just wanted to get into aeronautics very, very early on, was fascinated with flying. And then the older, he got fascinated with space and so that's what he got his undergraduate degree in as well as his master's degree. And then he worked at one of the many aeronautical firms down in Southern California.

[00:13:53] And so he was basically drawing, sketching, how do we make this kind of plane? What do we need to [00:14:00] make this one work? So why did that one crash? What do we need to fix? So pretty good deal. 

[00:14:06] Marbree: Was either one of them originally from Southern California. 

[00:14:10] Fritz: Nope. 

[00:14:10] Marbree: How did they wind 

[00:14:11] Fritz: up 

[00:14:11] Marbree: there? 

[00:14:11] Fritz: Nope. They decided that they no longer wanted to live in freezing cold and humid Minnesota.

[00:14:21] So after he finished his master's, he got a job offer down in Southern California where all of the booming aeronautical and space firms were building. And so they said, yeah, let's go there. He convinced his brother to also move there. Come down here, the weather's perfect. 

[00:14:42] Marbree: So off they went. So did you grow up then with your uncle nearby?

[00:14:46] Fritz: Yes. Yeah, so that was nice with my three cousins. They're basically the same age as we are, but they're two boys and one girl. 

[00:14:55] Marbree: Fritz, by the way, is the eldest of three. She has one brother and one [00:15:00] sister in that order. And 

[00:15:02] Fritz: the parents would play Bridge and the kids would watch Sea Hunt and TV shows of that time.

[00:15:09] Yeah, it was quite accommodating. We liked it. 

[00:15:13] Marbree: Fritz attended college about an hour and a half away from where she grew up, and I asked her about how she chose that school 

[00:15:20] Fritz: at the very end of my senior year. I hit kind of a romantic wall and was in between boyfriends realized, wait a minute. That school that you thought you were gonna go to, it's not gonna fit you.

[00:15:36] And so I chose this little religious school 'cause I knew I could go there. It really wasn't a very good fit in most cases, except that I got my husband out of it and I could get through in three years. It was too small. And sometimes in those cases, everybody knows. Everything about everybody else. It just was, um, [00:16:00] not such a super environment and it really was too new.

[00:16:04] So they didn't have the rigor of courses they were getting there, but they didn't have as many majors offered as they do now. Now they have master's degrees and my one good friend was going there, so I said, okay, I'll go with her. Um, so just an emotionally stupid kind of mistake, but it turned out 

[00:16:23] Marbree: to be okay.

[00:16:23] I think you got something pretty good out of it. Yeah, exactly. Did you go home often? Being as close as you were during those college years? 

[00:16:30] Fritz: You know, not super, because I didn't have a car, so I was dependent on other people. None of us had cars and there's no rapid transit. At least there wasn't at that time.

[00:16:41] So yeah, definitely not every week kind of a thing. Did you have a driver's license? I did, yeah. Yeah, because actually I was at the younger end of my class. I started college when I was 17 because my birthday was in September, so I had a [00:17:00] driver's license, but nothing to drive. I graduated in a year early for a variety of reasons, and some of the courses that I had taken in high school enabled me to do that.

[00:17:13] The summers between the various years in college, that enabled me to do that, so I saved money and I got into graduate school earlier. 

[00:17:24] Marbree: What did you study? 

[00:17:25] Fritz: Study. I studied a foreign language and teaching, and so that enabled me to get credentials for both elementary, high school and higher education with just a little bit more work in graduate school so that I could teach anything.

[00:17:45] And then I could also go into administrative work, which was, well, my first ultimate goal was I thought to get a PhD, but a few things interfered with that. [00:18:00] I have enough classwork to get a PhD, but no thesis because of getting moved around the country to several cities related to my husband's work. 

[00:18:13] Marbree: Okay, well before we get to that, what language?

[00:18:17] Fritz: German. So I already had a foundation in that language from high school. I could build on it. And then that also helped me get out of there. I had, for example, zero French, so I would never have pursued French, wrong accent and not the background in order to complete that progression of coursework. 

[00:18:42] Marbree: Was there a reason in high school that you took German?

[00:18:45] Fritz: Yeah, I liked the teacher. I didn't see myself as speaking Spanish per se. I might have studied Russian, but we didn't have it at our high school, so I seemed, I seemed to go toward the more federal languages. Okay, 

[00:18:59] Marbree: [00:19:00] because you like it as a very good reason or you liked the teacher? It's as good a reason as any to pick one.

[00:19:04] Fritz: That's right. 

[00:19:05] Marbree: So graduating in three years, was that because you met your husband or just because you could in saving money, as you said earlier, or?

[00:19:15] Falling in love. 

[00:19:16] Fritz: Yes. He was the best thing I got out of the college in addition to the degree. Get outta there earlier. I realized when I got there, it was too small a school, but that didn't matter because then I figured out, well now I can proceed here and get out of it. And his mother liked me, which is significant.

[00:19:38] Marbree: I asked Fritz to tell the story of how they met. 

[00:19:42] Fritz: I'm a freshman, he's a year ahead of me, and I'm quite sick in my dorm with a flu, vomit kind of flu thing. And so he sees my roommates, why they were bringing food to me, I'm not sure, but they were carrying some things back [00:20:00] and he is playing the big man on campus.

[00:20:03] Let me introduce myself to you and here I'll carry the tray for you and. Please let her know who this followed.

[00:20:22] Couple days we had dates, we had stubbornness between us over who was gonna be the alpha person of the pair, but we got that ironed out and off we went. 

[00:20:35] Marbree: So was he your first adult relationship or had you had, you know, were you dating other people in college or, or beforehand? 

[00:20:42] Fritz: He was my first college person.

[00:20:44] And pretty much at that college it was, the guys could maybe go out with some other people, but if the guys saw that you were going out with so and so, then she couldn't go out with any of the other guys. [00:21:00] So, um, archaic, but I had any number of interesting relationships in high school. 

[00:21:07] Marbree: So you and then did carry on graduate school.

[00:21:14] Fritz: Yes, one of us finished, one of us did not because he realized what he thought he was going to do in graduate school. He would've disliked very much, probably would not have been able to continue a job. A series of jobs from which he could make a living. And so then he cycled back to working with a company that he'd done some employment in the summers and bingo.

[00:21:44] That worked. And so I finished, and that's where I got my administrative credentials also so that I could be a principal. And then he just started making money and we just started moving to various [00:22:00] cities in the us, various coasts, middle of the country. 

[00:22:04] Marbree: So when did you get married? 

[00:22:06] Fritz: 1970. 

[00:22:07] Marbree: Right after you graduated?

[00:22:08] Fritz: Right after we graduated, yes. I And how 

[00:22:12] Marbree: often were you moving at that time? 

[00:22:14] Fritz: Every two years. Basically like a military type job. 

[00:22:18] Marbree: And that was because his job was taking you wherever it it was going? 

[00:22:21] Fritz: Yes. And that's also similar to the military where they want you to learn. Certain elements of you should have this to be a success in the company.

[00:22:33] You need to have these kinds of skills, these kinds of skills. And part of the reason I ended up not finishing the PhD was too far away from where I'd done the grad work and I didn't wanna go to the trouble of doing it long distance. It would've been much more difficult. Yep. 

[00:22:52] Marbree: Did you like the moving 

[00:22:54] Fritz: usually?

[00:22:55] Yeah, usually I did. Um, because we got to see lots of different [00:23:00] parts of the country. 

[00:23:02] Marbree: Was there anywhere that you moved in those years that you absolutely loved and wished you could have stayed longer? 

[00:23:07] Fritz: Well, actually where we ended up is. We've ended up staying here the longest. We stayed in the right amount of time in New Jersey to get to see all of the different parts of the state and the other states nearby.

[00:23:22] But it was too hot and humid in the summer for me, however, and the winter was not as bad as, as where we live now either, so. So it was actually pretty, pretty good. But that was three winters, so that was enough. And 

[00:23:39] Marbree: did you work in those years when you were moving Every two years, 

[00:23:42] Fritz: yes. A veritable plethora of little jobs.

[00:23:47] So I started out with educational jobs at the lower end of the spectrum because at that point I. Two kids and they were [00:24:00] we ones, and so they were doing things like gymnastics and so I taught children's gymnastics, for example. And so then as they got older, I then moved up the educational scale and then somewhere in there is when I started writing, which is what was my adult career, if you will.

[00:24:24] So when we got to the west coast and they both ended up being in junior high and senior high, then that's when I had more time to do writing. That's when I segued into that and writing children's books. So I could do both. Activities at their school, be the room mom or whatever, help plan the prom night or what, whatever those sorts of activities were.

[00:24:52] But then I started writing nonfiction, children's books, and I could write them at the level of where they [00:25:00] were reading wise. And then I could gradually go up the scale. I never got to, um, high school books, although a couple of my books are in a couple of high school libraries. A couple of them are in the Smithsonian bookstore.

[00:25:18] Marbree: How many books did you publish? 

[00:25:20] Fritz: 23. Wow. 

[00:25:22] Marbree: I never knew it was that high. 

[00:25:23] Fritz: And then also some curriculum related to school curriculum or bible school curriculum. Yeah, so it was whatever I could get anybody to take. And then once you get hooked up with a publishing company, then you're set for more books. Now I'm, I'm not talking about Joyce Carol Oates for example, but the list of kinds of nonfiction books that are needed for kids connected to what they're studying and their curriculum, it's pretty endless.

[00:25:56] So that's how I got the Denver book sold. This [00:26:00] particular company said, well, would you write this book? And I said, well, I don't know anything about Denver. Well, can you research it? Uh, yeah, sure. Done. And so then they came back to me and asked me to write something about Greek mythology. So I did two or three Greek mythology books because they knew me and I was on their table of people that they could count on to get the manuscript in on time.

[00:26:26] Yeah. So it was interesting. 

[00:26:27] Marbree: Where did the idea for the first one come from? 

[00:26:29] Fritz: I noticed that there were not any books in this particular category, and that's one of the key pieces to get started. You have to write in your little cover letter. There are no books on blah, blah, and blah. I propose to do a book on this subject, and then I would send in my first three sample chapters and they'd send it back, and usually what happens is you get No, no, no.

[00:26:58] In my case, [00:27:00] I was extremely fortunate. I got the first no, but that editor hand wrote on a form letter back to me, you're on the right track. Basically, I would suggest you send this to. Gave me the name of the next company and I sent it to them and they said, yes, we want it. So then I had something I could put on the resume that was a published book and off I went.

[00:27:29] Marbree: Did you have any guidance with starting the first one, knowing well, you know who to submit to or what to do? 

[00:27:35] Fritz: Yes and no. So, and I think it's probably pretty similar today, although there are a couple different things. So I went to the library and I found out this big fat book tells you all the different publishing companies.

[00:27:50] There's a magazine called Writer's Digest and it has articles. Um, in fact, I sent in an idea to them and they published it. So that's how I [00:28:00] got my knowledge from the library basically, because the internet was not so hot. Back in the old days. 

[00:28:08] Marbree: Did you start writing only after the kids were born when they were a little older.

[00:28:13] Fritz: When I was about six or seven years old, I had already started writing and in the guise of being the controlling older sister, and so I would write plays and I would make the kids, my siblings be part of it, and we would sell tickets to the next door neighbor and she would give us extra money, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:28:37] I wasn't writing anything that would be good enough even to put into the high school yearbook or anything. For some reason, I didn't follow that path. I was doing more social things. But I did start when they were pretty small, um, based on my husband's advice, because he said, we're now on the third move.

[00:28:58] Well, I think you should [00:29:00] write because you always did a really good job on term papers. Okay. And then off it went successfully, 

[00:29:07] Marbree: which is incredibly fortunate. And obviously 

[00:29:10] Fritz: Yeah, it's, and you know, I mean we're not talking high paying books here, but it was ego satisfaction for sure. 

[00:29:20] Marbree: Oh, I'm sure. And there is something nice about however low the or big that income is that knowing that you are words are bringing in.

[00:29:29] Fritz: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:29:31] Marbree: And even if they're not high income, they still, I'm sure were contributing to the bottom line. 

[00:29:36] Fritz: That's right. Yep. 

[00:29:37] Marbree: I wanna go back a little bit. In the early years of marriage when you were potentially moving around. 

[00:29:45] Fritz: I was teaching and then I became a principal, and then we had the first kid and it became more challenging because it wasn't a something by which I could control the hours.

[00:29:59] Very well. [00:30:00] And I tried working halftime and then there was another child and that became even more challenging. Yes. So then we got moved and that saved me from having to burn any bridges. I didn't teach no, maybe eight years, including the principal stuff at at what level? Kindergarten is where I started.

[00:30:25] It was not where a student taught, but that's where I could get a job. So, and I loved it. I mean, you're God, yes, yes. Thank you. And yeah, it was really very satisfying to work with them. And then I did some second grade, some fourth grade, some sixth grade, then some, um, junior college. 

[00:30:46] Marbree: Bit of a jump there, 

[00:30:47] Fritz: jumped around and whoever I could get to hire me to.

[00:30:52] Yeah, in every state you get transferred to, you usually have to get a new [00:31:00] credential, which takes one to two years. And then I got moved with the rest of the family to another new state. So that's also partly how the writing got going. 'cause I could do that in any state. 

[00:31:13] Marbree: Do you miss teaching? 

[00:31:14] Fritz: Um, I guess not since I'm hesitating, I, I also taught skiing and we did that as we were getting moved around, and that was solely part-time.

[00:31:25] But you not only get paid to teach, you get your lift pass and you get the lift passes for the people in your family. So it's quite lucrative. So yeah, I did it for a while. 

[00:31:37] Marbree: And how long did you write? When did you stop? 

[00:31:40] Fritz: When did I stop? Um, well actually I still every once in a while get a book sent back because they need it updated.

[00:31:47] But basically, um, 2000. 

[00:31:51] Marbree: Was there a reason that you stopped? 

[00:31:52] Fritz: Um, yes. 

[00:31:54] Marbree: 2000 was the year that Fritz's husband stopped working. We digressed a bit and then jumped [00:32:00] back in time to when they were moving every few years with two kids. What kind of support did you have? Did you have family around or because you were moving.

[00:32:09] Were you really juggling all of it with a husband who was presumably working, I'm gonna guess, fairly long hours. 

[00:32:15] Fritz: Correct. And he's more of a support person now as a grandfather, whenever we got transferred, one or the other, my kids as grandparents would come and stay for a week or so till we got the house sold, or we moved into the other one.

[00:32:35] But generally I was trading off with friends, paying for babysitting. He had to do a lot of travel, so then of course he wasn't available. That was probably the hardest thing. 

[00:32:47] Marbree: Did you feel like there were people in your life that were consistent throughout? You know, did you have friends from, from high school or from college you could lean upon or, or any other areas of life?

[00:32:59] Fritz: I guess it [00:33:00] was the parent. Parents of my kids as friends when they were teen ones at first, and then as, as they got older, we could also shift around more. 

[00:33:13] Marbree: So let's talk a little bit about skiing. At what point did you start as a ski instructor? And that's partly in relation to age of your kids, because that's one more thing in your, in your schedule.

[00:33:22] Fritz: Let's see. Oh yeah, that was pretty early. I have a photograph of me carrying in a front baby carrier down the hill with the oldest child. So I didn't have much coverage for the kids and one to three when reach.

[00:33:48] They were toilet trained, then they could go take lessons and then options expanded miraculously. 

[00:33:56] Marbree: Exponentially. 

[00:33:57] Fritz: Exponentially. And, and they seemed to [00:34:00] like it. So that also helped. 'cause there's no guarantee you, you can tell your kid that now we're gonna go out and ski. And I've seen numerous kids that go, no, I'm not gonna do that.

[00:34:11] So we lucked out that way. 

[00:34:13] Marbree: Did you teach kids or adults or a variety over the 

[00:34:17] Fritz: years? 

[00:34:17] Marbree: Well, 

[00:34:18] Fritz: the school, any of the, I dunno how many schools we worked for, or five, six, depending on which state we were in. State, they would see on the resume, you have to turn in a resume, go through an interview, and they would see taught elementary school and I would get a lesson with the little kids.

[00:34:41] So I got practiced approaching the ski school director and say, well, if you put me in a private lesson with a kid, I'll take it. But this is like Busman's holiday. I wanna teach grownups, not kids. And [00:35:00] then it worked. 

[00:35:02] Marbree: When was the last time you skied? 

[00:35:03] Fritz: Last time I skied was three years ago. Do you miss 

[00:35:08] Marbree: ski? I watch.

[00:35:09] Fritz: Hmm. 

[00:35:10] Marbree: Do you miss it? 

[00:35:12] Fritz: Yeah, I do. I do, but then I get to watch other people doing that. So it's, I, the older I get, the less I like to be cold. 

[00:35:21] Marbree: Did you get to ski with all your grandkids or any of them? 

[00:35:24] Fritz: Yeah, I have. So That's good. 

[00:35:27] Marbree: Are there other, other pastimes that you've enjoyed throughout your adult years?

[00:35:33] Fritz: Um, yeah. Playing, playing the piano. 

[00:35:38] Marbree: Do you still play? 

[00:35:41] Fritz: When did you start? Six years old. And I even went all the way through college and took a couple lessons in college from one of the teachers there. Yeah. So it's interesting. 

[00:35:53] Marbree: Was playing the piano something that was essentially for fun or was it something that you wished you could [00:36:00] have done more with?

[00:36:02] Fritz: Actually, I, I kept taking lessons even when my kids were taking lessons, I wanted to learn how to improvise, but I found out that I don't have the correct kind of brain to improvise. So I need the notes and the music in front of me, but that's okay. And I got to play in some recitals with the kids because that was part of the, um, instructor's rule that we would go to a rest home, for example, and we would play, I played beat it and a duet.

[00:36:37] Of the kids, for example. Yeah. And so that was fun. 

[00:36:42] Marbree: Do you feel like playing piano for that long gave you any different ways of looking at life or helped shape your brain? 

[00:36:49] Fritz: Well, one thing it did was make me decide that I could try learning. Um, I also played the clarinet, and that's what my parents wanted me to [00:37:00] play, because then I could learn so many more instruments with it.

[00:37:04] Well, that worked in their school. They both went to a small high school and I said, I, I don't wanna do that. I want to play the flute. No, they're gonna play the clarinet. So, so ultimately when we hit covid, I bought a flute and I'm not very good at it yet. It's, it's hard to makerere the shape of your mouth, but there's a music school close by that teaches all different kinds of.

[00:37:30] I teaches kids up through adults and so I've taken some classes there and so that was fun to stick my neck out and say, well, yeah, you can do this. 

[00:37:43] Marbree: I can't remember when I read this, but that piano in particular is one of those instruments that tends to be very good for keeping the brain 

[00:37:52] Fritz: Yes. Engaged and 

[00:37:54] Marbree: you know it, it tends to be a hobby of very intelligent people.

[00:37:57] Fritz: That's the theory. [00:38:00] Anyway. My food is beautiful and my piano is beautiful and the clarinet is one of my grandkids plays the clarinet. So it's gotten passed down. It's not all for naugh 

[00:38:14] Marbree: and tennis. Didn't you play tennis? 

[00:38:16] Fritz: Well, I did. I did quite a bit and I. Better at playing doubles than singles. Not a good enough screaming hard serve.

[00:38:26] But when you play doubles, there's a lot of strategy involved and that seemed to appeal to me. So in different neighborhoods that I lived, I would play tennis and that's, that's gone by the wayside. I'm playing golf. 

[00:38:43] Marbree: So you've always been active, physically active mm-hmm. In election, whether that's in, in multiple forms, yes.

[00:38:52] Artistically. What haven't you done? 

[00:38:55] Fritz: I haven't gone to the moon. I haven't gone to outer [00:39:00] space. That's what my father was involved in. Basically from the time he was a kid, he, he was gonna fly, he was gonna make rockets. He wanted to be the oldest guy to go into outer space. And so the last couple of years we've been watching the Apollo 13 films and so on, because he worked on that, he had to go help solve that problem.

[00:39:27] And so now we keep saying, oh, I wish we would've asked your dad this, this, and this. And so it's made me think, oh, I dunno if I would, I have had the nerve to do that. And when you see and hear the films of the rocket launches, it's so loud and it's so thrashing, but it's something that my mind has tossed around.

[00:39:54] Would I have had the courage to do that there?[00:40:00] 

[00:40:02] Are allowed to do it and accepted. 

[00:40:05] Marbree: Were there any decisions in your adult working years, your own decisions that, um, maybe at the time didn't feel momentous, but when you look back, were you know, that that could have sent your life in a different direction? 

[00:40:21] Fritz: Oh, yes. So when I was gonna graduate school, I had two professors in particular that, um, I related well to, and they clearly liked my work.

[00:40:35] One sent back one of my term papers, his name was Sam, and he said, this is publishable. Oh. Oh, really? And I just stuck it in the back of my mind. But pulled it out a little later and whenever I was getting discouraged, I would say Sam said, that's publishable. You can do that. And then another one said, um, that, [00:41:00] that I should have, could have applied for, uh, oh, what are those fellowships overseas?

[00:41:06] And I didn't, the timing was wrong, although I probably still could have, but I would've had to kiss off getting married and maybe having a baby at that time. So I didn't do it. 

[00:41:17] Marbree: Okay. In any of those years, can you remember, was there ever a, a person who felt like a mentor or an advisor or who just really helped out at a time when perhaps the kids were driving you crazy and your husband was working too much, or an editor was being really demanding, or, you know, any of those types of things.

[00:41:39] Were there people who, who you remember as sort of helping you through something? 

[00:41:44] Fritz: Well, when I thought about this, it was me in one case because one particular book I thought the outline that I had for was great, and the editor said, uh, you need to [00:42:00] move this chapter to there. Okay, so I did it, send it in.

[00:42:04] She said, no, you need to move that chapter to here. So we got through. There were only four chapters in the book because it was a youngish kid book, and we ended up with the chapters in the same order that I had originally placed. And so what I got out of it was, speak sooner. You can do this, you can have more faith in confidence in what you're doing.

[00:42:33] Marbree: Fritz recounted another instance when her editor wanted to cut certain quotes that she felt strongly ought to remain. She held her ground and the quotes were kept. Had it not been for that earlier lesson with the chapters, she would not have had the courage to do so. I went on to ask her if she had any advice for people like her own adult children who are working and raising kids.

[00:42:56] Fritz: Yes. So I think that we [00:43:00] don't all get enough praise, and I thought I did a pretty good job of it when I was raising them, but now we're getting more into the teenage years, and so I'm looking for more opportunities where I can spend the time with the teenagers, say to the parents, you know, you're, you're really doing a good job with so and so.

[00:43:24] You see what you did with, with so and so about this. I really like how you're doing that. Da da da da da. It makes me feel good to make those kinds of positive remarks. They seem to like it, the kids like it, which is also very gratifying 

[00:43:40] Marbree: in, in. The early two thousands, your life shifted away from writing and working, and instead some other endeavors, which at some point started to include some philanthropy.

[00:43:55] Yes. 

[00:43:57] Fritz: Mm-hmm. Yes. 

[00:43:59] Marbree: So what's [00:44:00] that journey been like? How did that, how did that come about that, that decision to focus on, on finding recipients for money? 

[00:44:09] Fritz: My husband wa was then no longer working. So there were the two of us available to find, well, what do we wanna do if, if we're not working per se? I was still finishing up some things, but he wasn't.

[00:44:25] Um, and so you kind of put your name out there, um, that you'd be interested in. Being on a board doesn't mean you're gonna get to be on the board, but you just. Put it out there. Um, secondly, you, you would actually make a donation to an area of interest and they in turn might follow you or come back to you.

[00:44:55] And I guess I should get to the very front with we decided [00:45:00] what our three main interests were. Particularly, I mean, there's, there's so many worthy causes, right? So we narrowed them down to the three to four that we thought, okay, this is what we're going to focus on. Then you make a donation, they begin to find out about you, um, and they might seek you back.

[00:45:20] Uh, another way to get involved is to volunteer, to be on a committee or to help. Um, on a gala or gala, depending how you wanna pronounce it. So then you get your little nose into, oh, okay, this is how this organization works. And you get reinforcement for, I, I like, oh, I do like how they're maneuvering. I like the people that are working here and so want to keep working there.

[00:45:59] So that's [00:46:00] basically how we got started on a pretty small footprint. Have you enjoyed the process? Yes. Yes I have. And there are several that I've liked that I'd put higher up that I've had more satisfaction with than others. And you know, if you don't really like it, you just. Go do something else. The university leadership that I did was, um, that was fascinating.

[00:46:32] It started out from a not good situation with our university where we had a president, a president that, uh, was doing some things he shouldn't be doing, and so he left. So then we needed all of a sudden a new president, and so I got involved on the hiring committee to [00:47:00] hire the guy that we ultimately did hire.

[00:47:03] So that was an extremely absorbing set of circumstances and finding out, well, how do you decide? What are the best choices? What are the most moral choices? Um, and then I got segued over to being, okay, now you get to be the chair of the whole board. And so something I never would've guessed at 20 years old that I, I would've done.

[00:47:34] And so it, it was fun in many ways. It was certainly, um, mentally stimulating. I'm glad I did it. I I wouldn't wanna take it on Now it's, boy, it's a lot of work, but I'm really glad I was able to do it. 

[00:47:49] Marbree: Do you think that the education that you had in the beginning of your professional life looking to be an administrator in Ed, in, in the educational [00:48:00] field, do you feel like that had any help or connection to what you ultimately wound up doing in that instance?

[00:48:06] Fritz: You mean did it help me? The being on the board of directors and being the board chair? Yeah. Well, I think it did because I knew that I wanted to do things in education, public leadership, nature. Now, initially, many of those courses were skills in reading, skills in social studies. Um, but they also got to the point of evaluating other teachers or evaluating other staff members.

[00:48:42] So, yes, I, I think that did it. It showed me that, oh, I can do this. I understand this, and I, and I still like it, it's still of interest, which is 

[00:48:55] Marbree: sort of wonderful that this, you know, career path that you had intended to have. [00:49:00] In a way, it reappeared 

[00:49:01] Fritz: for you. Mm-hmm. Yes. Because you know, you, you can make these choices and then have it be.

[00:49:08] Total disaster or, or a door shuts and you're not able to do it. So, 

[00:49:14] Marbree: yeah. And then who knows? Suddenly you find yourself in a role similar to what you once thought you wanted. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:49:24] Fritz: Exactly. 

[00:49:25] Marbree: Changing gears again, what role has church played in your life? 

[00:49:30] Fritz: So, church has been big in my family since the Reformation, which is seriously, I You're going pretty far back here.

[00:49:45] I'm going way far back because my parents went to visit where they thought the family was from, and they found a pastor with my father's last name. And so we said that's it. We've got [00:50:00] roots all the way back. The Reformation reform so that you know, the 15 hundreds. And my father would always say it was my mother who was the leader because her family went to the particular church in their small town and my father's family, his father got into a fight with a pastor of a different denomination.

[00:50:27] Yeah. But that grandpa was, he was a pretty strong-willed buddy, and so they changed churches to where my mom's family was going to church and church. That was that. So then they got to know each other more and more. So then wherever it was that we were moving to, it was that denomination of church that we would go to and we'd go to Sunday school, we all got baptized, we got married in that [00:51:00] church.

[00:51:00] My, my grandchildren have gotten baptized, have gotten gone to Sunday school. They're not as busy now, but I mean, it's just been pretty well continuous even though churches are changing nowadays. And, um, all the so-called big line Protestant churches, they're all shrinking. They're not the big box stores or that's what we call 'em, the big box churches that, with the songs that they sing will be the same versus over and over again.

[00:51:37] And I, I don't really. Feel as comfortable in that situation. That said, it's partly because I like what I grew up with and so we're basically staying with our denomination, but there are parts of it that we don't necessarily feel as comfortable with anymore. That's okay. Yep. So if you ask my daughter, she's [00:52:00] connected that way too, even though they don't always have the time that they'd like to do there.

[00:52:05] Lots of things to do, lots of things to be involved with. But the roots are there. 

[00:52:10] Marbree: As you moved about, was finding a church, you know, locally, one of those sort of initial things that you would do and, and then were there times that you found one that became, you know, a source of community or support in a new location?

[00:52:23] Fritz: Yes. That happened every time we moved. The one time where it didn't quite sync together was, um, on the East Coast. And so we went to a different denomination, but it had historical roots with the country, with the us and so that was interesting to pursue from that perspective. So we went there, learned some things from that, and we're glad that we had that chance.

[00:52:51] Marbree: We're gonna be jumping from one topic to the next at this point. 

[00:52:54] Fritz: Okay. 

[00:52:55] Marbree: Your mother lived a very long time, is that right? 

[00:52:59] Fritz: Yes. [00:53:00] As did her mother 101 and her father 106. 

[00:53:05] Marbree: Wow. So, 

[00:53:07] Fritz: yeah, 

[00:53:08] Marbree: we should back up a little bit. How long did you have your father. 

[00:53:12] Fritz: That 

[00:53:12] Marbree: was the sad 

[00:53:13] Fritz: one. 66. Yeah. He got cancer and it just galloped right through and he was, he was gone in four months.

[00:53:24] It was awful. Yeah. I'm so sorry. Yeah, me too. Yeah. And then your mother lived to what age? Yeah. So yeah, her, her buddies wanted to set her up with some blind dates and she went on a couple and she said, yeah, I just don't wanna do this. I already lived with the guy that I wanna live with, so leave me alone, so and so.

[00:53:53] Um, she had a wonderful long life until finally she decided, okay, that's it. I'm, [00:54:00] I'm done. 

[00:54:00] Marbree: She stayed in that house in California all the way till the end, which means, Nope, no, almost, almost. 

[00:54:07] Fritz: Okay. Almost all the way to the end. Um, she was losing more of her friends, so her network was kind of gone. And so my brother and my sister-in-law said, come and live with us.

[00:54:20] So they transported her down to the San Diego area, and she lived with them in their house for a couple years, and then she went to. Um, a lovely, lovely retirement home. And then she ultimately died when she was in the upstairs nursing home park, but for the most part, up until about 90, she was, she was pretty well cooking.

[00:54:46] Impressive. Yeah. And given it 

[00:54:48] Marbree: was, given the generations behind you, it sounds like you've likely got a, a good bit of time left still. As you look back over the course of your life, who would you say are the handful of [00:55:00] people who have been the most important or influential in no particular 

[00:55:05] Fritz: order? Husband, actually, both of my parents for, for different reasons and, and different styles of acting and, um, ideas that they share.

[00:55:19] And then I had a professor in grad school. That I just clicked with him in terms of his manner of advice. He would take the time to write things on papers. That was, it was very personal and uh, he had comments like, this is publishable. Oh, okay. I hadn't thought of that. I hadn't intended that. And so, I mean, I can see his name.

[00:55:50] I can see some of the things that he wrote on my papers. 

[00:55:56] Marbree: If you could ask one of those people. A question today. Is [00:56:00] there something you'd wanna ask him? This is quite interesting because 

[00:56:04] Fritz: my husband and I have probably for the last year, been compiling a list of, and he's the one that started it. I wish, oh, I wish we could ask your dad this.

[00:56:18] Oh, I wish we could ask your dad this. So we're making a list. My dad influenced him. Yeah. And when we're both feeling like, um, oh yeah. Lost a moment there. Which it cycles us around to, don't lose those moments. Now if, if you can capture them with whoever the person is, even if it's a little, we one, right?

[00:56:42] The little grandkid. What kind of moments do you mean? Um, remember to, if it's a little person, to say to that person what it is they're doing well, what it is that you like. About what they're doing. Let's say that little [00:57:00] kid did something very helpful for a peer. So notice it. Don't let the moment slide by and say something about it to the kid.

[00:57:10] And there are other times that I've let those moments slide by with adults. I mean, sometimes it's plain and simple. I just didn't think of it and it was too late. Um, but try then to be more aware, 

[00:57:24] Marbree: looking back and, you know, aside from this could be publishable or this is publishable, can you remember any words of advice that, that you received or came across at any stage of life that meant something to you?

[00:57:39] That's where I'm 

[00:57:40] Fritz: going right now. And I'm laughing a bit because it's dad, sit up straight. Right. Um, keep your shoulders back. It is good advice. Yeah. Skirts were too short. Bikinis were too skimpy. And so that was kind of his role where my mom, I don't know if they agreed on it together, [00:58:00] but it's his voice I'm hearing regarding those.

[00:58:03] And, and yet I don't feel, I don't feel resentful about that. Maybe when I was 18, I did, but I don't think so because I also had in the background that how I was doing in school and, um, type of friends I was making, um, except that one boyfriend, they were supportive, very supportive. So I was basically on the right track, is what I was feeling.

[00:58:31] If you could go back over the course of your life and make any changes, would you Oh, Pathwise. Well. I say that the best thing I got out of college was my husband, which is pretty critical of the whole setup. But there were a couple of things that happened that never should have happened. Like the janitor cornering me in the laundry room and so I went to the Dean of students and said, this is what happened to me, and I don't think this should [00:59:00] have happened.

[00:59:00] Well, the dean of students just fluffed me off. So, yeah, so that I feel like I know why it happened. It's still wrong. Um, I carry that one with me as no way that should have happened, especially in a school that says labels itself as Christian. 

[00:59:22] Marbree: Did that happen before or after you met your husband about the same time?

[00:59:27] Fritz: Yeah, I was a freshman. Yeah, we didn't have co-ed dorms at that time. They did come not too far after that. Did you think about transferring schools? Yeah, but then I'd already decided on him and his mother liked me, so I went, okay, I'm just not going in the laundry room by myself. And I told all my roommates too, by the way, so, you know, let's always go down together.

[00:59:54] I think statistically they say something like that, and he didn't rape [01:00:00] me, but you know, he pinned me in the corner and so I need him in the groin. Something like that happens to at least 50% of of women, and so that's why we have to keep watching out for ourselves, watching out for young women. Well done for kneeing.

[01:00:19] Yeah. Use my physical gifts. Did that janitor continue working there the whole time you were in school? I don't think so because I was so spooked about it. Um, but I don't think so. So maybe there actually was some action, but not to the level that I wanted. Yeah. 

[01:00:44] Marbree: Yeah. What would you say are some of the biggest lessons you've learned in life?

[01:00:47] Fritz: Um, I think that the whole faith piece for me is important and keeps me going even when I feel like I'm pretty lost or [01:01:00] I'm all alone. I'm thinking about a group of friends that I have here and also some other friends. Um, like your mother who are, I mean, they're just gonna be lifelong friends. I can't see them every day, but when we get together, it's like, we haven't, we haven't been away.

[01:01:21] And it, it's pretty hard to, you can't replace that. I suppose this is a little bit of a correcting of fault. I'm usually pretty good at starting something and finishing it, but I'm saying to myself, you know, I think you gotta keep doing that. You can't, you can't get distracted. And somehow my grandkids, they hug me and so to get a hug or even a little kiss on the cheek from a 17-year-old.

[01:01:56] So yeah. And I, I know they've gotten all [01:02:00] four of them. They've gotten the. The input from the parents and the guidance from the parents. But you know, they could turn their back on me and ignore it, but they don't. So I'm continuing to try to keep that string 

[01:02:15] Marbree: alive. I think they're all pretty good kids. 

[01:02:18] Fritz: You know?

[01:02:19] Marbree: It's partly because you raised a couple of good kids. 

[01:02:21] Fritz: Yeah. Thank you. I mean, you do the best you can and 

[01:02:25] Marbree: with friends also. All right. I'm gonna ask you one more question. Okay. If you had all the world's attention for up to one minute, 

[01:02:34] Fritz: what would you like to say? All the world. What? 

[01:02:36] Marbree: All the world's attention for up to one minute.

[01:02:40] Is there anything that you would like people to hear and take to heart? Um, keep making friends 

[01:02:47] Fritz: and keep them as friends. If. You don't nurture that, you'll lose it, and the older you get, the harder it is to make 

[01:02:57] Marbree: friends. [01:03:00] Thank you Fritz, for sharing a life that shows if we're willing to adapt, we can have the good stuff, a career, a family, hobbies, friends, we just need to roll with the shifts, play to our strengths and acknowledge that yes, it will be hard at times.

[01:03:21] I hope those grandkids of yours continue to hug you for many years to come. To those of you listening, thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed this, please leave a review in Spotify or Apple Podcasts and hit that follow button. These things help others find the podcast and they mean the world to me.

[01:03:38] Share this with anyone you think would love it or learn something from it and keep coming back from more of the words we've heard. This podcast would not be possible without the editing and production brilliance of Corey orac, the inspiration of my parents at a 2001 conversation with my grandmother.

[01:03:57] My thanks to you all. [01:04:00] So what are the words we've heard? Faith can keep you going. Don't let the moments pass you by. Tell people what you see and appreciate them while you can keep making friends and keep them as friends. What we don't nurture, we lose.